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	<title>Comments for BIBLIOGRIND</title>
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	<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com</link>
	<description>The Life of a Wordsmith — Read ... Live ... Write</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:15:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Third Draft was the Charm: &#8220;What Beauty&#8221; is nearer to launch by mark beyer</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/2011/12/29/what-beauty-novel-launch-news/comment-page-1/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator>mark beyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/?p=1722#comment-133</guid>
		<description>As a reader I&#039;ve always demanded the writer give me his view of the world, for better or worse. I don&#039;t want to add my details, or in fact do the writer&#039;s job by having to add the details or &quot;sights&quot; of people, place, characterization &amp;etc that are supposed to be his focus. I recently began &quot;How the Dead Live&quot; by Will Self and fired that book after 15 pages because (1) I didn&#039;t know where the fuck I was, (2) what time of day or night it was, (3) who was speaking to whom, (4) or any semblance of characterization other than a stream of dialogue shot back &amp; forth like urban warfare. That&#039;s a mash, to me. And yet he is widely popular. I don&#039;t get it, give that people (readers) are as distracted as they are. You&#039;d think people would want a fictional world that is specific and detailed as much as jolting from their little world in which they live day by day. 

Details and specificity are part of the craft of being a writer, as I&#039;ve understood it and have seen it done by those whom I&#039;ve read and will extol (Tolstoy and Flaubert, Joyce &amp; Woolf, Fitz &amp; Hem, Bellow &amp; Faulkner, Roth &amp; Atwood &amp; Rush &amp; Theroux &amp; Murdoch) —— they all give me that complete world. It&#039;s an all-at-onceness act, that gives us the visual-imaginative experience. Without the details (and this is the writer&#039;s main task: which to include and which to leave out) the story is simply an internalized hash of &quot;talking&quot; between the character and the writer or the narrator and himself.

Likewise, a writer&#039;s job is to give the reader the view of a world in which he sees it, not how I might see it or a fourth or fifth party. I understand that you (and everyone else) has a specific sight and understanding of a bag lady. But then there is this bag lady that I have imagined and present. This is a specific bag lady that you have not seen, or have not taken the time to notice among all the bag ladies you&#039;ve watched. Who among us focuses on bag ladies anyway? And when we do, what do we see? Do we ask the questions that the narrator asks? 

Criticism is as ephemeral as stories themselves. Should I listen to the negatives, the positives, make stories the way &quot;they&quot; would like stories, or employ the techniques of the major authors (and major prize/award winners)? It&#039;s not even a toss-up Q/A, because I&#039;ve always been drawn to story that gives it all to me, not minimalistically or with opaque veils of talking maelstroms from the writer&#039;s mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a reader I&#8217;ve always demanded the writer give me his view of the world, for better or worse. I don&#8217;t want to add my details, or in fact do the writer&#8217;s job by having to add the details or &#8220;sights&#8221; of people, place, characterization &#038;etc that are supposed to be his focus. I recently began &#8220;How the Dead Live&#8221; by Will Self and fired that book after 15 pages because (1) I didn&#8217;t know where the fuck I was, (2) what time of day or night it was, (3) who was speaking to whom, (4) or any semblance of characterization other than a stream of dialogue shot back &#038; forth like urban warfare. That&#8217;s a mash, to me. And yet he is widely popular. I don&#8217;t get it, give that people (readers) are as distracted as they are. You&#8217;d think people would want a fictional world that is specific and detailed as much as jolting from their little world in which they live day by day. </p>
<p>Details and specificity are part of the craft of being a writer, as I&#8217;ve understood it and have seen it done by those whom I&#8217;ve read and will extol (Tolstoy and Flaubert, Joyce &#038; Woolf, Fitz &#038; Hem, Bellow &#038; Faulkner, Roth &#038; Atwood &#038; Rush &#038; Theroux &#038; Murdoch) —— they all give me that complete world. It&#8217;s an all-at-onceness act, that gives us the visual-imaginative experience. Without the details (and this is the writer&#8217;s main task: which to include and which to leave out) the story is simply an internalized hash of &#8220;talking&#8221; between the character and the writer or the narrator and himself.</p>
<p>Likewise, a writer&#8217;s job is to give the reader the view of a world in which he sees it, not how I might see it or a fourth or fifth party. I understand that you (and everyone else) has a specific sight and understanding of a bag lady. But then there is this bag lady that I have imagined and present. This is a specific bag lady that you have not seen, or have not taken the time to notice among all the bag ladies you&#8217;ve watched. Who among us focuses on bag ladies anyway? And when we do, what do we see? Do we ask the questions that the narrator asks? </p>
<p>Criticism is as ephemeral as stories themselves. Should I listen to the negatives, the positives, make stories the way &#8220;they&#8221; would like stories, or employ the techniques of the major authors (and major prize/award winners)? It&#8217;s not even a toss-up Q/A, because I&#8217;ve always been drawn to story that gives it all to me, not minimalistically or with opaque veils of talking maelstroms from the writer&#8217;s mind.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Village Wit (novel excerpt) by bonalibro</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/thevillagewit-novel-excerpt-by-mark-beyer/comment-page-1/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>bonalibro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 00:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/the-village-wit-sample-chapter/#comment-132</guid>
		<description>As I suspected. I was wondering because it seemed like stream of consciousness, and the orientation problem derived from it being the narrator&#039;s stream not the character&#039;s stream. Particularly that second paragraph. Illeistic third is the character writing about himself, as if he were someone else. It obviates the problems of first person narration, allowing the author to chose what to cover.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I suspected. I was wondering because it seemed like stream of consciousness, and the orientation problem derived from it being the narrator&#8217;s stream not the character&#8217;s stream. Particularly that second paragraph. Illeistic third is the character writing about himself, as if he were someone else. It obviates the problems of first person narration, allowing the author to chose what to cover.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Third Draft was the Charm: &#8220;What Beauty&#8221; is nearer to launch by bonalibro</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/2011/12/29/what-beauty-novel-launch-news/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>bonalibro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 23:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/?p=1722#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Since you asked, I&#039;ll give you my take on it, I am more intrigued by the last four paragraphs than the first, in which I found myself getting lost in a tangle of descriptive detail where one or two more telling details would do. Maybe the shoes and the lack of odor. We all have our own image of bag ladies with which to engage the text. 

The question is, how much of a first impression is your reader willing to give you. I usually give a book the first sentence. Your first sentence engaged me so I read on into the briar patch. Then dropped to the following paragraphs where I got interested again. 

If you hadn&#039;t asked, I would not have read on past the thicket. Hope that helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you asked, I&#8217;ll give you my take on it, I am more intrigued by the last four paragraphs than the first, in which I found myself getting lost in a tangle of descriptive detail where one or two more telling details would do. Maybe the shoes and the lack of odor. We all have our own image of bag ladies with which to engage the text. </p>
<p>The question is, how much of a first impression is your reader willing to give you. I usually give a book the first sentence. Your first sentence engaged me so I read on into the briar patch. Then dropped to the following paragraphs where I got interested again. </p>
<p>If you hadn&#8217;t asked, I would not have read on past the thicket. Hope that helps.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Village Wit (novel excerpt) by mark beyer</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/thevillagewit-novel-excerpt-by-mark-beyer/comment-page-1/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator>mark beyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/the-village-wit-sample-chapter/#comment-130</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what the lit-crit definition is for &#039;illeistic third,&#039; but I wrote TVW in what we in 1983 college class called &quot;3rd-person restrictive&quot; ... yes, very close-over-the-shoulder (and in the mind) of Richard Bentley. But then when his employee comes into the story, I alternate b/w them (more or less) in that restrictive 3rd-person style. 

I found the style quite useful and dynamic for telling a dual-character story without relying on (or being forced by) 3rd-P Omniscient; I didn&#039;t want an overall narrator getting in the way of the characters&#039; &quot;felt&quot; story-telling, and I also didn&#039;t want to get into the minds of other characters. 

I appreciate your comments. Have you read the short sample to my upcoming novel, &quot;What Beauty&quot; ??  You can find it here: http://www.bibliogrind.com/2011/12/29/what-beauty-novel-launch-news/

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what the lit-crit definition is for &#8216;illeistic third,&#8217; but I wrote TVW in what we in 1983 college class called &#8220;3rd-person restrictive&#8221; &#8230; yes, very close-over-the-shoulder (and in the mind) of Richard Bentley. But then when his employee comes into the story, I alternate b/w them (more or less) in that restrictive 3rd-person style. </p>
<p>I found the style quite useful and dynamic for telling a dual-character story without relying on (or being forced by) 3rd-P Omniscient; I didn&#8217;t want an overall narrator getting in the way of the characters&#8217; &#8220;felt&#8221; story-telling, and I also didn&#8217;t want to get into the minds of other characters. </p>
<p>I appreciate your comments. Have you read the short sample to my upcoming novel, &#8220;What Beauty&#8221; ??  You can find it here: <a href="http://www.bibliogrind.com/2011/12/29/what-beauty-novel-launch-news/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bibliogrind.com/2011/12/29/what-beauty-novel-launch-news/</a></p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Village Wit (novel excerpt) by bonalibro</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/thevillagewit-novel-excerpt-by-mark-beyer/comment-page-1/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>bonalibro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/the-village-wit-sample-chapter/#comment-129</guid>
		<description>Mark,

In no way intended as a put down, but I&#039;m curious about the POV, as I&#039;m having trouble orienting myself to the text. Is it illeistic third? Or is there a third person narrator? 

The style itself, seems very felt.

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>In no way intended as a put down, but I&#8217;m curious about the POV, as I&#8217;m having trouble orienting myself to the text. Is it illeistic third? Or is there a third person narrator? </p>
<p>The style itself, seems very felt.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Moat Around the Castle: treehouse orgs and storming the gates by bonalibro</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/2012/03/10/the-moat-around-the-castle-treehouse-orgs-and-storming-the-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>bonalibro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/?p=1869#comment-128</guid>
		<description>This sounds like a really good idea, sadly bastardized by its fearless leader. Having read through hundreds of slag heap titles on authonomy in recent years, I know exactly what you are talking about. 

That said, I think your fearless leader is more realistic. The number of books being written today is immense. You would find yourself so overwhelmed you would not even know how to qualify what you would look at. 

Accepting stuff from agents that they can&#039;t sell might be one way to go. But when would you have time to write, for all the read throughs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds like a really good idea, sadly bastardized by its fearless leader. Having read through hundreds of slag heap titles on authonomy in recent years, I know exactly what you are talking about. </p>
<p>That said, I think your fearless leader is more realistic. The number of books being written today is immense. You would find yourself so overwhelmed you would not even know how to qualify what you would look at. </p>
<p>Accepting stuff from agents that they can&#8217;t sell might be one way to go. But when would you have time to write, for all the read throughs?</p>
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		<title>Comment on From the Letters of Mark Beyer by bonalibro</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>bonalibro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2012 02:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/my-thoughts/#comment-127</guid>
		<description>No comments yet. 

Do I ever know that feeling. Occasional traffic. Little feedback. That&#039;s the way it goes.

Saw you on NYRB. Liked what you had to say. Thought I would click through. See what you are up to. 

Like your choice of books and the way you blog them. Short blurb and pithy quote. 

Adding disqus comment system might help attract more comments. It also keeps a record of comments you write elsewhere on disqus. chronicle.com is great for attracting readers. 

Pay me visit. Keep in touch. 

http://bonalibro.us</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No comments yet. </p>
<p>Do I ever know that feeling. Occasional traffic. Little feedback. That&#8217;s the way it goes.</p>
<p>Saw you on NYRB. Liked what you had to say. Thought I would click through. See what you are up to. </p>
<p>Like your choice of books and the way you blog them. Short blurb and pithy quote. </p>
<p>Adding disqus comment system might help attract more comments. It also keeps a record of comments you write elsewhere on disqus. chronicle.com is great for attracting readers. </p>
<p>Pay me visit. Keep in touch. </p>
<p><a href="http://bonalibro.us" rel="nofollow">http://bonalibro.us</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Back on Line by Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/2011/09/16/back-on-line/comment-page-1/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 11:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/?p=1487#comment-126</guid>
		<description>No worries mate. Ooh I appear to be you.

Did you see your comments? I think someone was trying to reach you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries mate. Ooh I appear to be you.</p>
<p>Did you see your comments? I think someone was trying to reach you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on We were very dirty tonight&#8230; by andy</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/2010/06/18/we-were-very-dirty-tonight/comment-page-1/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 15:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/2010/06/18/we-were-very-dirty-tonight/#comment-103</guid>
		<description>Well I say! This blog really is hotting up lately :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I say! This blog really is hotting up lately <img src='http://www.bibliogrind.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Alliterative Thingy by andy</title>
		<link>http://www.bibliogrind.com/2010/06/02/alliterative-thingy/comment-page-1/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bibliogrind.com/2010/06/02/alliterative-thingy/#comment-102</guid>
		<description>bleeding bollocks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bleeding bollocks</p>
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